Continuing the 'God Discussion'

[Gee3666]

For anyone who missed it,  This thread is a continuance of the discussion from the 'Sword of Truth' thread In the 'What are you reading' forum.

I was asked recently if I believe in 'God'.  this is how I replied:

Belief, Faith and Religion are often confused and I would like to diferentiate between them before I proceed.
Belief is most simple. Belief is the foundation of your acknowledgement of 'God'. Faith is the concept that your Belief is founded in. Religion is how you physically practice that Faith.
So, if you are asking me if have a traditional Judeo-Christian view of a supreme being the answer is no. I say no because, with reguard to all other religions, I find it difficult to relegate myself to one avenue of thinking or belief. I do believe in a power greater than myself however, and in that way I would say that yes, I do believe in 'God'.

[DR]

It sounds like you are living embodiment of agnosticism.  I know many who share your sentiments.

[Gee3666]

It's funny you should say that.

In High School (many moons ago), my class was assigned this passage from our short stories and writings text:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/ingag.htm

Now I dont consider myself a Strict Agnostic by any means.  I lean toward Agnostic theism, with a touch of Nihilism and a few other spices thrown in as well.

[udo]

I'll throw my hat in with the agnostics.

I cannot conceive of a method of disproving God's existence, so atheism is clearly out.
Yet, I see the countless "men of God" who abuse their power and authority, and cannot believe that these people truly themselves believe in God and yet abuse children, call for monetary donations to live in mansions, fly jets, etc.

[Firefly]

i think we are just a bunch of agnostics so far.  in my mind, god surely exists, but proving his or her or its existence is difficult.  disproving god's existence is even more difficult.... 

thinking about the origin of the universe boggles the mind, but something must have set it all in motion.

[udo]

disproving god's existence is even more difficult.... 

It's impossible.

[DR]

I lean toward Agnostic theism, with a touch of Nihilism and a few other spices thrown in as well.

This indeed an interesting mixture.  I have often grappled with the task of describing my own beliefs.  Like most Americans and Brits, I was raised in an at least nominally Christian family.  Church was a holiday affair, and we tended to invoke the name of God only when we were in dire straits.  That said, I always found something about Christ's essential message very appealing.  What I could never stomach is Christianity's history of persecution and abuse in the name of religion. 

What I strive to understand is how one can reconcile a belief in reason and the power of logic with the notion that books that were written centuries after Christ's death are infallible.  Not all Christians believe that every book of the Bible is infallible, but many do.  How then can one explain why some books made the cut, and others didn't?  This was a human decision.  If any of you haven't read some of the unworthy texts that were left out of the Bible, you should search them out.  They are very interesting.

[Gee3666]

At this point, I must say that most of what has been discussed is primarily 'Christian-Based" philosophy and Theology.  If , in my opinion, we are going to have a discussion about'God', (whatever that may mean to you), then we should broaden the scope of the discussion to include other faiths.  Otherwise, all we seem to be doing is "Catholic-bashing", and I think thats not right, or at the very least, narrow-minded.  Keep in mind that im pretty much 3 sheets to the wind at this point, and it's very possible that I'm babbling, so be kind.

[Maximus]

Hope you're enjoying yourself, Gee.    

I don't think DR is necessarily Catholic bashing at all.  In fact, you are likely to find more evangelical Christians that believe the Bible is infallible than Catholics.  Now that I've said that, I agree that we should broaden the scope of our discussion beyond Christianity.

What about the possibility of multiple Gods, as in the Hindu pantheon?  Have any of you considered that as a possibility?  Two or more divine beings in the place of one almighty force/God?  Why did polytheism disappear from Western thought so long ago yet continue to flourish in India?

[Josh]

I'm with Maximus, I wouldn't consider anything anyone has said 'Catholic bashing', and I'm a Catholic. Having gone through Catholic school for 12 years, I know the general teachings pretty well. I still consider myself Catholic in my beliefs, since none of what I believe comes into conflict with what I've been taught, and I attend church regularly and all. I think there are probably a lot of misconceptions, even among Catholics, about the actual theology of the church. But that's a completely different topic. Point is, Catholicism doesn't teach that the Bible is to always be interpreted literally, so I'd take no offense and in fact would agree with anyone who says it shouldn't be.

As to Maximus' reference to polytheism, I think a good definition of 'God' precludes this possibility. At least, the way I see it, God, or a divinity, or however you want to say it, is by definition I think a unification of all things, and any sort of pantheon would define gods as lesser or greater, or at various degrees of power. If God is perfection, then God is God, one unity of everything, and can't be segregated. Of course, this brings into question the idea of a Christian Trinity. However, I think the idea of 'three persons, one God' could still hold, if you look at it from the standpoint that they are different facets of the same being. So in this regard, I think the idea of multiple gods has a sort of truth to it. Not as separate entities, a la Greek or Roman or Hindu pantheon exactly, but the idea of different elements embodying different aspects of the same one God. That much is all dependent on perception, though.

[udo]

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. "Well, there's so much to live for!" "Like what?" "Well... are you religious?" He said yes. I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?" "Christian." "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant ? "Protestant." "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?" "Baptist" "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?" "Baptist Church of God!" "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you reformed Baptist Church of God?" "Reformed Baptist Church of God!" "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

(Emo Philips)

[Firefly]

that is a fantastic quote.  it sums up many of the frustrations i feel when it comes to organized religion.

[Josh]

I agree, I think most people in general tend to focus on the smallest little differences in beliefs instead of looking for common ground. It's important to remember that it doesn't matter what religion you are, so much as what kind of person you are. No religion has a monopoly on piety, nor claim to be the only path to righteousness. This is not to say belief in one religion rather than another is pointless. I am only saying that there is truth to be found in every religion, if in no other way but to give one a wider perspective in life.

[Maximus]

Amen.  Along those lines, I never much cared for Billy Graham until recently.  The man has impressed me deeply by admitting that he was overzealous in his youth, and that certainly there is room for Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists, etc. in heaven.  This is a more powerful statement than you might think, coming from such an evangelical powerhouse preacher.  It's refreshing. 

I agree with Josh that the content of your character is what matters most.

[Gee3666]

These are precisely the reasons that I tend to search for the wisdom in a religion rather than dwell on its strict tenets.  God is boundless, and in my opinion, that's how you should handle your faith.