Series C - Beale Code?

[Josh]

So I've managed to get a fair number of code for series C at this point. It obviously differs from series A and B because...the code is full of numbers. Which have never repeated, so far. Ranging from single digits to upwards of 1000. I had a hunch that this might be Beale code - the entry in Trumalia's blog might seem to suggest this - but it doesn't work that simply. For those who aren't familiar with Beale code, the famous Beale ciphers were lists of numbers anywhere from 1 to over 1000 as well. They corresponded to the first letter of each word in the Declaration of Independence. So a number like 354, would be equal to the first letter of the 354th word in the Declaration. Anyway, the short story is, it doesn't work like that directly for series C. But I wondered if anyone else had any ideas, either how to apply the Beale code differently, or if they had any other thoughts on how to decipher such a long, nonrepeating set of numbers.

[MotherEarth]

So, my questions are...do you think there is or would be a number pad + or - a one
number, like in the original Beale Code.  Then there is the document that would be the
object of the code.  If so, what would that be for a site that is evidently artwork
orientated?  Does the numbers over 1000 give a hint? 

[Maximus]

A Beale cipher strikes me as a likely scenario as well, given the range of numbers that Josh set forth.  That could make things very difficult.  Perhaps if it's a Beale Code, the key text is an old one, which would fit with the general nature of the Series C riddles.  I'm simply trying to think thematically.

[Josh]

Yeah, the code is intended to be hard, but not impossible. If it is a Beale code, the possible documents could be endless. Which is why I think, if it is Beale cipher, the document would have to be something on the level of the Declaration, as far as importance goes. I tried a few things from the Bible, for instance, just on the off chance, but the variations in translation and such means it might not be too likely, given the many possible decipherments. But who knows. That's the best I got so far.

[MotherEarth]

I do find this fascinating.  Does the history of the Beale Code/Cipher have any instances
of the existence the code being actually being used? The various sites regarding the code
seem to be either disproving the existence of a treasure or why it became such an
obsession with the public, sorta like Trumalia!

[Maximus]

Well, I do know that one Beale cipher was cracked using the Declaration of Independence as a keytext.  I think that while the C series might well be a Beale cipher, the A series probably isn't.  What do the rest of you think?

[Josh]

Well, the C series is the only one with numbers. A series is some sort of polyalphabetic cipher, I think. As for the history of Beale, there was only that one code originally that translated using the Declaration. There were two other number codes that went with it, but most people now think they don't correspond to anything, and are just numbers. So historically, the Declaration is the only document ever used with this sort of code.

Personally, I'm hoping Dave maybe leaks a hint or two to point us in the right direction. But everyone deserves a chance to figure it out for themselves first, so that will probably be awhile from now if he ever does. But who knows, maybe one of these days one of us will find the breakthrough needed to crack one of these two remaining enigmas.

[daveh]

Yeah, the code is intended to be hard, but not impossible. If it is a Beale code, the possible documents could be endless. Which is why I think, if it is Beale cipher, the document would have to be something on the level of the Declaration, as far as importance goes. I tried a few things from the Bible, for instance, just on the off chance, but the variations in translation and such means it might not be too likely, given the many possible decipherments. But who knows. That's the best I got so far.

Here are my thoughts:
It has to be a Beale cipher.

The key to it has to be one of the following:
1) Something on Trumalia.com
2) Something linked to be Trumalia.com
3) A text from 500BC to 1400AD Europe
4) A text about 500BC to 1400AD Europe
5) Something related to the original Beale cipher

I also think:
a) The text doesn't have to be in english, but it should use the regular alphabet (ie it shouldn't be greek)
b) If it is a translation, it should be _the_ definitive translation of the original, unless it is the Bible.
c) The text should be in the public domain (not copyrighted)

Of course, I've tried quite a few documents, and come up with nothing, so any or all of this could be wrong.

What do you guys think?
   Dave

[Josh]

Pretty much the same conclusions I came to. Still trying to figure out a method to narrow down the possibilities though. Or maybe it'll just have to be a little luck involved. I'll have to think about it some more.

[daveh]

Well, I've tried nearly 600 documents, and I haven't found anything.

I think I'm going to wait for the hint to narrow down the options.

[MotherEarth]

A simple "yes or no" might be of use here.

Is the code related to a US document or text?

[Josh]

The original Beale cipher used the Declaration of Independence as its text. The code we are dealing with, assuming it is in fact a Beale cipher, does not, or at least does not use it in exactly the same way. So basically, there's no telling what document or text was used until someone actually solves the cipher. So either the code was intended to be this hard to break, which, without hints or clues of any kind makes it nearly impossible to do so; or, there are actually hints or clues that might somehow indicate a certain document or text to be used. Or, it may not be a Beale cipher at all, and the blog's mention of the Beale ciphers was a red herring. Given that a solution of series C might very well net someone the grand prize, in addition to the last remaining buried artifact, I wouldn't expect a hint of any sort to be forthcoming, not anytime soon at least. As frustrating as it can be, this is the sort of mystery that makes it all more gratifying in the end when someone finally does make the connection needed for a solution.

That said, sometimes I wish somebody would figure it out just so my head could stop hurting

I also wanted to mention that I liked daveh's idea of a forum of sorts for those who have already solved series A or B, for discussion of their solutions and their possible applications to series C. I'm not sure how exactly it'd be possible to do so, unless there's some way to test each applicant, as it were, to see if they have the solution for A or B, or not. But I'm all for it...at this point, two heads, or more, might be necessary to finally figure out the key to series C.

[MotherEarth]

Josh...you and DaveH seem to be the only ones
of the candidates for the extra forum you suggest.

So as much as we have "as a group" solved B, the
Roman Numeral Enigma and A...I don't think possible
suggestions for C would be a trigger for the "Great
Riddle Wars", hence the question re a text or
document.  If neither, it could be a math reduction.

I have a feeling we will have to wait until your next
birthday for a hint

[Firefly]

even though i wouldn't be part of the new board, i think it's a good idea.  the folks who have solved a and b should have their own forum for exchanging hints.  i'm still working on the easiest one -- series b.

[daveh]

I'll see what I can do to get a private board setup.

As for validation, how about I PM the B solution to Josh; he can validate that I got it, then I can be the gatekeeper.

It is a little hectic for me right now, but I'll try to get it done this week.